August 7, 2007 by SherpaRon

So, I just want to take this time to thank all of the local cachers for doing such a fine job. I will definitely recommend St. Louis to anyone who really enjoys caching for what it was meant to be. There are other places where you can find MORE caches, but I haven’t seen a place where you could hunt BETTER caches....and I’ll take QUALITY over QUANTITY every time.

 August 6, 2007 by GEO*Trailblazer 1

Never know when you might need to make a note for 87 to see.

I only have a few micro's.
The rest are still mostly a hike.

These are the GOOD OLE DAYS.

 July 26, 2007 by ThePolarBear

I'll be in the area in a few weeks (a very short stay) and I was thinking about caching in Forest Park. However, I noticed that a few caches seem to be inside the zoo, and I'm not about to pay zoo admission to go caching. It would be highly appreciated if anybody could give me the names of all caches that are in the zoo area, including puzzles and multis - that way I can exclude them.

 July 15, 2007 by Photobug6570

My family(me,wife, son, and in-laws) will be in the area from tues. 7-17 through sat. 7-21(leaving early).

I was wondering if anyone has any tips on "MUST DO" caches in the area?? I have about 20 listed around the convention center and see Forest Park has 16 active.

Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

 December 14, 2006 by Panther in the Den

You don't have to log a find to get it off the radar. Just hit ignore. :) You can still have it on the watch list.

 April 4, 2006 by Brawny Bear

Judging by your screen name, I would guess that you work for the State of Texas? Perhaps between now and august, we can get some caches out in your area..

I have never cached in San Antonio. However, I worked there for quite a while when I lived in Katy. One heck of a haul each way but was worth it. I love that town!

Mike
Brawny Bear

 August 8, 2005 by *gln

Glenn,

St. Louis has a newsgroup too! , signup here.. (visit link)
St. Louis Area Geocachers Association (visit link)

 July 1, 2005 by Brawny Bear

Please let me know when you go caching and I will be glad to give you the special tour of the place.. I was just looking over the "Secrets" handouts today. We really enjoyed coming up there for the event.

Shoot me an email and let me know what day and what area. There are some special ones I would like to for you and the family to do..

 May 22, 2004 by konopapw

As I was paying for the wire, he asked me if I knew anything about geocaching. I said, 'yes'. He said, 'Don't they have one in Fenton somewhere?' I said, 'They have them all over the world'. I then gave him the URL for geostl.com.

 April 22, 2004 by Brawny Bear

The second event is in Augusta at the new Klondike park. St. Charles County Parks has asked us to participate in the National Trails Day out at the park. I should get more details as time goes on about what SLAGA will do. I know we will have to have a couple of caches hidden for the Adults along the trail system and have some easy kids caches as well as some handouts and games.

Please look at the cache pages and signup.. We need volunteers!

 January 5, 2004 by xitaqua

How about : do group caching at least once a month.

Join us for group caching at:

In front of Corporate Parkway Library every first Saturday of the month at 10:35AM.

1200 Corporate Parkway

Wentzville, 63385

Our first one will be this February 7.

All skill levels are welcome !.

Cache Agenda (subject to change by popular demand) :
Cat Lover's Cache by freydis (& family) (GC6429)
Play Ball by GBFind (GC875A)
Geocaching Is Fun by BruceS (GCGMJA)
Quail Ridge #1 by BruceS (GC3094)
find it at founders by Snackbar (GC4DDA)
Tyler's First by wow4mom (GC9739)
Tyler's Oak by wow4mom (GC973A)

Need another resolution ?

How about : Improve your speaking skills while having fun !

Join us for an informational meeting about Toastmasters International from 9:30AM-10:30AM.

We are trying to form a new chapter in the Wentzville Area. Everyone is invited, geocachers are encouraged to join us !

Learn about this great organization and how it can help you progress professionally while having fun and getting the word out about geocaching.

Here is some info for the curious : (visit link)

Join us at the conference room of Corporate Parkway Library every first Saturday of the month at 9:30AM :

1200 Corporate Parkway
Wentzville, 63385

Our first one will be this February 7.

Cheers !
xitaqua

 September 29, 2003 by jbwillows

Have regular cachers noticed more frequent lost-of-signal in the last 6 weeks? My GPS is taking much longer to sync up lately and the signals are weaker than 2-4 months ago.

I'm wondering if my MAP-330 is gettting "tired".

 August 24, 2003 by Island-Dave

Tonight I met with the Director of Parks and Recreation with the City of Ballwin. She wasn't aware of the existing caches, but she is excited about Geocaching and said that it sounds like a lot of fun. I'm going to do a cache with her in the near future. We also discussed a possible geocaching class in the future.

 October 3, 2002 by *gln

Welcome to geocaching and hope you enjoy the journey.

Be sure to check out the St. Louis Area Geocachers Website too. (visit link) there is lots of handy local info here.

Dont forget agout the Geocachers picnic coming up oct 12th.

**Glenn

 September 9, 2002 by konopapw

Sunday at 7am, Ms E. and konopapw met RGS at the designated meeting place. We left at 7:15am and headed for Rolla to meet thunder_monk at the Steak & Shake. thunder_monk had just placed two new rest area caches and we gave them the stress test.

We first did his new Kid's Rest Cache - then ventured toward Big Hole (aka 'big sink hole'). On the way, we got a history lesson from thunder_monk about the trains that used to bring tourists from St. Louis to visit the two artesian wells in the area.

We had just logged the Big Hole cache when all of a sudden wow4mom and Tyler appeared! They joined us for the rest of the cache hunts.

Next we drove the windy roads through Dixon to Clifty Creek parking area. Nice and slow walk on the creek bed to the natural bridge. At that point, you could feel the anticipation in every step that thunder_monk took, since he was driven to find the cache that had eluded him many months before. Because I had already hunted this cache, I just tagged along, trying not to give away the hiding spot.

On our way back to Rolla, we did thunder_monk's other rest cache, Kid's Rest Cache II. We bid ado to thunder_monk, gassed up and headed to Slabtown. After an unplanned tour of the Slabtown area, we found the launch point for the Slabtown Cave cache. Walking through the field presented the hottest part of the day, but it wasn't a long walk.

After carefully navigating the 'goat trail', the cache was found and we explored the cave a bit, especially the handywork of the ant-lion.

Since it was on our way home, we stopped at Rockadoodledoo. I had done this weeks ago; RGS had done it a couple of days prior. This cache has a habit of getting wet and we're not sure why.

After we got back to car, we detoured to see the spring. Tyler had found a very small snake caught in a spider web and we watched it for awhile.

The sun was going down and it was time to head for home.

Thanks to RGS for letting me be the shutterbug on this trip. Thanks to wow4mom and Tyler for catching up with us and putting up with all the dust we created on the dirt roads. And thanks to Ms E. for tolerating my spur-of-the-
moment decisions to go caching all day long!

(Respectfully submitted by konopapw)

 August 3, 2002 by konopapw

Difficulty: 3.5 Terrain: 4.

The plan is to meet at 7am Sunday morning at same commuter parking (109 & 44) as last week for the Onondaga hunt. Noone has found this cache, yet. It's a Butch cache, so you know the view will be great.

 July 18, 2002 by konopapw

BruceS has graciously allowed us to tag along with him on his 1,000th find. He has tentatively chosen July 28th (Sunday) as the day and Onondaga S.P. as the cache (The state park is SW of St. Louis on highway 44).

These plans may change, so if you'd like to join us for the celebration, as well as meet other geocachers from the St. Louis area, keep up to date with the latest information at: (visit link)

We will add more details to the event calendar as we get them.

 June 10, 2002 by *gln

Glenn,

 June 3, 2002 by *gln

Earl & Lannis arrived about 19:30. We told stories and goofed off ‘till around midnight+ . What on earth could we talk about that long? Hmmm, lets see a partial list of topics include but are not limited to; The use of multi-spectral (under) ground imaging radar, various uses of ultra-low frequency radio communications, the technicalities of constructing campsite saunas and hot tubs, and how to drain a lake and fill said hot tub at the same time, the requirements of good cave mapping computer programs, hot to make a campfire using just $5,000 worth of wood, 40gal of diesel fuel and a dozen or so gallons of gasoline, (a really good campfire is one that can be seen from outer space), which led to various igniting systems, including an optical laser-actuated trigging devices… that was just to get us started. I am quite sure that if we hadn’t fallen asleep or had to leave on Sunday, we would still be talking!!

Between the whooping of the partiers at one end of the campground staying up ‘till 0200 and the primitive campsite rendezvous (sp?) folks at the other end of camp shooting off their black powder canons at 0600, I didn’t get much sleep Friday night. Then all day on the river then another late night Saturday made for a long day. , I think we had a splendid time and I am still beat and cant wait to go again.

Keep your eyes peeled for “The Camping and Floating Extravanganza #4” coming to a river near you soon.

 April 28, 2002 by RGS

Rich

 April 16, 2002 by St. Louis Area Geocachers Assn.

*********
VIEW PICTURES

To view St. Louis Geocachers's pictures at adobe.shutterfly.com,
simply go to:
(visit link)

 April 15, 2002 by *gln

I do not recall the name DUPONT. A quick scan thru the forums may turn up something.

 April 8, 2002 by *gln

Glad ya didnt get run over.

 April 6, 2002 by Opus P

I also get to plug my first cache. Stop by (visit link) and check it out.

 April 2, 2002 by RGS

WAY TO GO BRUCE!!!!!!!

It looks likes Barramus can't even keep up with the certificates. Jan 27, 2002 was # 300 for you. Quite a record!

Rich

 April 1, 2002 by St. Louis Area Geocachers Assn.

*********
VIEW PICTURES
St. Louis Geocachers is sharing pictures with you using
adobe.shutterfly.com, a great place to print, share and get creative with your
pictures online.

To view St. Louis Geocachers's pictures at adobe.shutterfly.com,
simply go to:
(visit link)

 March 3, 2002 by konopapw

March 3 by rmarley (138 found)
This cache is gone!! Up in smoke !!! Literally, This cache was destroyed by the State Fire Marshall's Office Bomb Squad. It was found in it's proper location by a non-geocacher and reported as a suspicous item. It was reported to police and then things got interesting. It was x-rayed, examined by a robot, and because of some questionable items, it was destroyed in it's best interest. Not much left to salvage, just a hole in the ground and some shardes of shattered plastic toys.

It was fun while it lasted, thanks to all who visited this cache.

 February 28, 2002 by konopapw

Spinner - you going to take news folk on a cache hunt? Do my new Phort Knocks cache. That'll give 'em a workout. Or, do Barramus' Flashback and get them lost in the dark. (Just don't tell them about BruceS, our prolific cache-a-holic!)

Something must be wrong with www.geocaching.com mail. I haven't gotten a Watchlist Notification all day and I'm starting to get the shakes!

 February 26, 2002 by Island-Dave

I understand the goal of the parks people is to establish a greenway along the Meramec, beginning at the Mississippi and extending all the way to Meramec State Park.

I have heard stories of conflicts between the land owners and others. While walking the trail last weekend, I noticed a lot of spikes - metal poles sticking up a few inches on the gravel trail - I guess to cause havoc with motorized vehicles. Fortunately, no fishing hooks on the trails.

Someone left a nice long rapelling rope up on the cliff though. I guess they left it there for future use. I sure had my eyeballs on it - but honesty prevailed.

I made a 180 degree IPIX image from on top of the Aggets Deux cliff - download will be available soon.

 February 19, 2002 by BruceS

It was a great weekend. It is unbelievable the amount of storm damage in the KC area. They will be doing clean up for a very long time.

 February 17, 2002 by *gln

The St. Louis Area Geocachers hope you enjoy these pictures and we hope
that you join us for the next group hunt. Everyone is welcome so ya'll
come out next time, 'ya here? **Glenn

HOW TO VIEW THE PICTURES
To see the pictures go to:

(visit link)

 February 15, 2002 by Barramus

I talked to Mean Gene this week. He is going to organize a 1 day geo-binge ! We are thinking of starting in Collinsville and seeing how many we can do in a day. Ya all are welcome on this one too. We haven't yet picked a day but are leaning towards a weekday.

Barry

 February 12, 2002 by konopapw

I looked around on the internet and learned a little more. The manual is about hiding food and ammunition for later use. One description is: 'Survival depends on having what you need-when you need it. The elite U.S. Army Special Forces are trained to operate far behind enemy lines for long periods of time and have developed proven methods of long term storage of weapons, gear food and other supplies.'

You can buy it from Yahoo Shopping for $9.95. (visit link)

 February 6, 2002 by Team Tecmage

We've been lurking, but reading that letter from Mr. Carney needs to be addressed. Tracy and I have a cache in an Iowa State Park. We contacted the Park Manager directly. He had experience using a GPS for some events held at Big Creek SP, and thrilled at the idea of using it for Geocaching. In fact, he drove us around the park, and pointed out some very nice areas where caches might be hidden.

As far as environmental impact, we placed our cache 50 feet off a SNOWMOBILE TRAIL. It's almost impossible to bushwhack to it (a few foolishly tried), so walking the snowmobile trail is the only viable way to get there- very low impact cache.

We have six others in State Parks, but I'll let those cache owners speak for whether they asked permission to place them. On that note- I see nothing wrong with asking for permission. It has been good for us, because we have a dialogue with the park manager.

That's our .02

 February 5, 2002 by myotis

I talked to Nancy Feakes (Recreation Officer for the Mark Twain NF) (the one who has been causing the problems) before the meeting. She indicated to me she did not think caches should be allowed in Wilderness (She thinks they should be virtual caches in Wilderness). First she said they were “unnatural” and I pointed out they are hid. Then she indicated she thought there should be “discovery” recreation in Wilderness. I told her she needed to read the Wilderness Act. She said she had not yet discussed the issue with Forest Supervisor Randy Moore (her boss). I was not getting anywhere with her so I headed to talk with the Forest Supervisor (who I sent the letter to).

I ran into the Forest Service Planning Officer on the way and he started to take me to meet someone else. But Randy (Forest Supervisor) stopped me and brought up the geocaching issue before I asked him about it. He told me it sounded like a lot of fun and he would like to try doing it. He is the one that issued the closure order that Feakes claims does not allow caching in Wilderness Areas. He told me the order was not intended to prohibit geocaching. He also said he did not see a problem with caching in Wilderness Areas and did not think there would be a problem with correcting the situation. He also thought it would be good for the Forest Service to promote caching.

After talking to Randy, I told Nancy Feakes about our discussion. Feakes mentioned caching several times in her presentations. Several of us talked to her after the presentation. She seemed more cooperative this time, but she still clearly seems to have a problem with caching in Wilderness and only wants virtual caches in Wilderness. She told us the regional office was telling her to discourage caching in Wilderness. I am going to contact this person to check this out.

Randy is a nice person, but he is the type of person that addition letters would help. We can be sure Nancy Feakes will try to convince him to not allow the caches in Wilderness Areas. So I would encourage everyone to write the Forest Supervisor a letter or email:

Randy Moore
Forest Supervisor
Mark Twain National Forest
401 Fairgrounds Road
Rolla, MO 65401-2911

you can send an email to: mailroom_r9_mark_twain@fs.fed.us

I would tell him why you enjoy caching and tell him you want the Wilderness Areas open to caching.

 February 4, 2002 by *gln

(visit link)

 February 1, 2002 by *gln

Hi, Glenn. I am the Recreation and Wilderness Manager on the Mark Twain
National Forest, with an office in Rolla. I have been following some of
the geocaching activities for the past several months, and have some
concerns about the growing number of caches on the national forest that we
aren't notified about, and in particular, about the ones that have been
located in Wilderness. In general, we have tried to be supportive of this
activity, as long as caches are placed outside of Wilderness and are placed
so that they are not causing environmental damage, (either directly through
the placement of the cache, or more commonly indirectly, though trampling
by cache seekers). Most of the owners of caches that have caused us
concern have been very cooperative, once we contacted them. We did have
Law Enforcement remove an ammo box cache because it was suspected
(erroniously) of being associated with some drug activity in the area. I
am trying to find ways to encourage geocachers to notify us when they place
a cache on us, and to not place caches in the Wilderness. I consider this
to be a legitimate form of recreation that we would like to encourage on
the national forest, in appropriate places. We would like to work with the
geocaching community to further this, and to minimize problems. I
definitely do NOT want to see problems that would lead to establishment of
numerous regulations or permits for geocaches, and we need the help of the
geocachers if we are going to be able to avoid that as the sport continues
to grow.

John Schumacher suggested that you might be able to help us. Please
contact me if you are interested. One opportunity might be for us to meet
in St. Louis this coming Tuesday evening...we are having a public meeting
at 7PM at the Powder Valley Conservation Nature Center , 11715 Cragwold Rd,
Kirkwood, MO to help keep the public informed about what is happening on
the National Forest. Maybe we could get together for a few minutes before
or after that meeting. Thanks.

 January 29, 2002 by Island-Dave

Sorry I missed the trip to Bell Mtn. Looked like fun. Any other trips planned?

Any one up for night cache at Flashback?

Regarding changing the background image on my cache pages - not much hacking - just cut and paste. Its simply a body background code inserted into the long description of the cache text. The code needs to refer to a image file stored at a location other than www.geochaching.com. I saw this done on another cache page and cut and paste the one line of code.

I placed two new caches over the weekend and another one today. Go get em.

Go Rams!
Island-Dave

 January 19, 2002 by Team Family Affair

or try the photos at (visit link)

How much snow did you all get?

 January 18, 2002 by Team Family Affair

Thanks for your response. Is is somewhat reassuring to find out that my experience (with people not willing to leave something comparable to what they took) is not unique. I have one cache right in the middle of town (Dinosaur Cache) that I have restocked multiple times but I think I will just give up and yield to periodically cleaning out the trash. Its interesting that people are willing to spend big money on buying a GPS, Batteries, Lots of Gas and their time but can't seem to be willing to stop at the Dollar Store or the local Walgreens to spend a buck or two to pickup something worthy of leaving in a cache. A sign of the times? I used to collect trinkets and leave pocket knives, coffee cups from interesting places, beanie babies and now have pretty much gone to collecting cache certificates and photos of each cache we visit. We still throughly enjoy Geocaching and creating new caches. In fact Mary and I just enrolled in a 3 month course/entitled Ghost Towns of the Black Hills as this should give us new ideas for new caches.

 January 16, 2002 by *gln

The second note is from Nancy Feakes who is the Recreation and Wilderness Manager for Mark Twain Natl Forrest. Nance likes Geocaching and really wants to help cachers place appropriate caches. I think we need to start keeping these folks in mind when we place caches. I am just trying to get the word out that it may be better to have the agencies on our side rather than against us. I should probably mark my boxes as GEOCACHES also. I guess it might be strange coming across a camo'd box in the woods. **Glenn
------------------
... yes, one
of our law enforcement agents did remove the geocache box at Greer Spring. A technician had noticed it on an inspection trip to the spring and didn't have a clue what it was - had some concern that it might be something nasty. With all the meth lab
activity and other wierdos that tend to gravitate to public land, we are alot more spooked about things in the woods. Once we found out what it was, we did some checking and our recreation specialist here at Rolla has been tracking caches on National Forest land. However, many times, we don't get notified that one has been placed, and not many of our people
actually in the woods every day know what they are. If this is a recreation pastime you are involved in, perhaps you could e-mail our recreation person Nancy Feakes - nfeakes@fs.fed.us to discuss this with her.

Jody Eberly
Wildlife Biologist
Mark Twain National Forest
jeberly@fs.fed.us

----------------------------------
From Nancy about geocaching...
As Jody mentioned, I have been trying to track the caches on the Mark Twain NF, but haven't devoted enough time to it to be able to even place a watch on all of them. I personally support this activity on the National Forest as a legitimate form of recreation when all the guidelines are followed, but I'm sure you realize that it is not appropriate in all locations. It is actually illegal to have anything other than a virtual cache in a congressionally designated Wilderness, but I think there are 2 caches in violation of that right now. We are also concerned with caches that will lead to development of user-made trails in Wilderness, or that will lead to trampling of sensitive ecosystems, or will be detrimental to threatened, endangered, or sensitive plant or animal species, or that are likely to lead to erosion or to other resource damage. Even though the guidance info on the geocache website recommends that you notify the landowner or land management agency when a cache is placed, we have yet to be notified by the owners when ANY of the caches on the Mark Twain were placed. I have corresponded with a couple of the owners of caches that I have watches on, and they were very cooperative. I am hoping that we can get the word out and get better notification...otherwise, we may end up having to formally permit these. Thanks for any help you can give us.

 January 7, 2002 by konopapw

Below is an email thread between myself and an employee of our favorite organization: Missouri Department of Conservation. I am not leaving any
editorial comments about this because I think the interaction speaks for itself.

I title this experience: No good deed goes unpunished

------------------------
My original e-mail from Sat evening, 1/5/2002:

I and two other 'geocachers' were poking around the Onyx cave today. I found a Magellan GPS hidden in one of the nooks to the upper
right of the cave entrance. We saw the Property of label on it, but it wasn't until I got it home and turned it on that I saw the splash
screen with your name on it (MDC Bill Elliot). I wanted to make sure it got back to the right person and I think *you* are that person! I
apologize for taking it if you meant to leave it there on purpose.

I have it at my home in Eureka,Mo. Let me know how I can get it back to you. Call or e-mail me.

------------------------
Mr. Elliot's Response the next Mon moring, 1/7/2002:

Paul,

I would appreciate it if you would mail that GPS receiver back to me right away, at the address below.

My field assistant, who stashed it there, has been frantic over the loss of this valuable instrument. We have various instruments located in and around caves, so you really should not have removed it, especially with a govt. tag on it. But, thanks for contacting me. I left a phone message for you with the address and phone.

Sincerely,

William R. Elliott, Ph.D.
Cave Biologist
Missouri Department of Conservation
Natural History Division
P.O. Box 180
Jefferson City, MO 65102-0180
phone 573/751-4115 ext. 3194
elliow@mail.conservation.state.mo.us (visit link)

------------------------
My Reply one hour later:

And here I thought I was doing a good deed! A Property of tag infers ownership. And within hours of finding the item, I tracked down the owner. I didn't want to leave it, on the chance that someone with selfish motives might find it and not return it.

To me, Property of on a portable item out in the woods doesn't mean I left it here on purpose and if you take it, you are a thief. Perhaps an additional note near the item, explaining why it is there, will prevent this from happening again. I would have put it back, had I known there were neat scientific studies in
progress! I lost a wallet on a trail a few weeks ago and if I hadn't actually found it myself, I would have been so greatful if someone else had found it and returned it to me. I'm sure it wouldn't have crossed their mind that I had left it laying in the leaves on purpose. I think we are both lucky that our item didn't fall
into the wrong hands.

Since I would be returning the item at my own expense, it would actually be cheaper for me to drive back to the cave and put it back where I found it. That's another option, so I'll wait for a response from you before doing anything. When this episode is over, this story is going to make an interesting entry to my online
discussion group.

Please be aware that the item is intact and in fine shape.

------------------------
Mr. Elliot's immediate reply (1/7/2001 9:37am)

Please just mail the GPS to me, as I asked. I will send you the postage in return.

Thank you,
William R. Elliott

 January 4, 2002 by *gln

There used to be a famous geocacher round here named WTMRN. Who are you and what have you done with WTM?

What say me about what.. pretty sure i didnt misunderstand anything.. you asked me if i wanted your caches, i eventually said OK. end of story. .. Since your caches was undefined i looked at your list. there were 5 caches.

transcript of relevant notes follow:
-----
12-16-01. .8:53pm . If you want to I will pass ownership of my caches to you by arciving them and you can write new cache pages, otherwise I will be picking them up. Andi may still want to manage hers though, wtm
---
12-16-01 10:13am better not. i dont think i could maintain them all. thanks tho. , gln
----
12-23-01 12:26pm you still wanting to transfer your caches?? gln
----
12-24-01 2:17pm yes, especially Greer spring since it is a good cache...wtm
---
Around this time i sent a note about which 5 caches, Greer, High & Dry, Ghost riders, Lunitic & watchtower.
-----
12-24-01 10:22 Done, thanks... wtm
----
On the morning of 12-25-01 i redid the 5 pages that were archived in the account that the picnic cache is in. I did not think it would be right to put them in my personal account as i did not hide them. The group account seemed to do until we can figure out just what the heck we are doing. Also at that time I started looking for interested cachers to help look after the caches as i still didnt think i could maintain them. So far most of them are taken care of. I have a list here somplace but as usual, i cant find anything. I have yet to ask Mean Gene, Denali and others. We can always use a few more helpers too, ya wanna help? In the meantime the caches are intact for the finding. High and Dry is being repaired saturday. if you wish i can rename it .. Up and out of the Weather.
**Glenn, St. Louis, Mo

 December 22, 2001 by myotis

I have both the Garmin topo software and Topo USA and the MO maps. I have Maptech topos for IL. The Garmin is expensive, but you can download the topo (and street maps) to the GPS. It is pretty nice having the maps built into the GPS. The interface is great and easy to use. It is the best way to manage way points, create routes, etc. for a Garmin reciever.

The Topo USA interface sucks. But it does a good job of handling the topo maps in the state moduels. I like the interface for the MapTech topos much better than TopoUSA.

If you got any more questions or want to see them let me know.

As to the concentration issue, I do not think there are enough of them. Remember concentration is relative to how many caches you have. What happens when you get all the caches in the area? If one thinks they are too concentrated, don't hunt all of them. Come back multiple times.

 December 17, 2001 by konopapw

trailguide@geocaching.com
This list is for veterans of Geocaching to discuss the current and future direction of the sport.

list@geocaching.com
The Geocaching Discussion List

projects@groundspeak.com
The Ground Speak Project mailing list has been created to discuss the ongoing project to make GPS applications in the new wireless world. Our goal is to create applications and the base infrastructure to freely share locational data between gps entheusiasts - and generate creativity in this emerging market.

 December 14, 2001 by konopapw

===========================
WWW.GEOCACHING.COM has a page called 'Guide to Creating and Hiding a Cache' (visit link) Here's an excerpt:

'... If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks ...'

===========================
A misc related note from 'the people' (visit link)

'... It was pretty easy and the area was fabulous! It was in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. Notice I said was? The Park service notified him the next day that he had to remove it from the park so it's no longer listed on the site. It just so happens that I had a cache in the park and I had to get mine out too! Now that it is out, I try my best to stay away from the NPS area. Quite frankly, they can bite me! I will spend my hard earned money elsewhere. I'm sick and tired of paying taxes for Government operations that tell me what I can and can't do. The NP is for the people. I could have understood it if we were digging up flowers or hurting wildlife in the park but were were not ...'

===========================
Here's a mixed, but good review of geocaching in the Kansas City Star: (visit link)

THINK BEFORE YOU HIDE
'Steve Lampone, superintendent of parks for Kansas City, said he's been pleased with the game's ability to draw visitors to the parks in general and to specific areas within the parks. The parks system may consider using geocaching to expose people to new developments or new park properties, he said.

But 'cowboy caches' -- caches hidden without permission -- can damage the relationship between game enthusiasts and park managers, Lampone said. Some park areas are more sensitive than others, he explained, and placing a cache there could cause irreparable damage.

People who would like to hide a cache in a park should contact the park's managers and ask for help in choosing an appropriate location, he said.

However, some park managers have banned the game from their properties. The National Park Service won't allow people to hide caches on federal land because visitors could damage or destroy natural or archaeological resources.

[These parks are pretty special to the people of this country, said Mike Butler, a special agent with the National Park Service. There are things there that we are sworn to protect.]

Some local officials also worry about the effects the game could have on their parks. Concerned about large crowds of people roaming through the town's small parks, the city of Mission prohibits geocaching on public property.

[It's something we may be open to down the road, said Steve Corry, director of Mission's parks and recreation department. We have one park that might lend itself to the activity, but we need to make sure our city feels comfortable with bringing that many people in.]

Paul Lamble, a geocaching enthusiast from Overland Park, said geocachers and park managers will be able to find a compromise if both parties respect and understand the other's position. Asking for permission before hiding a cache will help build positive awareness of the game, he said.

[As the sport matures, the knee-jerk objections to it will fade away, Lamble said.]'

 December 14, 2001 by *gln

#200 was timber combine.

 December 14, 2001 by myotis

Applying the unattended property regulations violates the 1st Amendment. (The Superintendent does not even know how to properly cite the regulation. It should be 36 CFR § 2.22(a).) He also did not properly quote the regulation. He cut off part of it that is relevant and did not even put . . . to show he had deleted art of the regulation. The entire sentence is, “Leaving property unattended for longer than 24 hours, except in locations where longer time periods have been designated or in
accordance with conditions established by the superintendent.”

Even if there were not Constitutional issues, caching still would not violate this regulation. “Unattended” is not defined in the regulation. In those cases you use the ordinary dictionary definition for the word. Unattended is defined as “Not being attended to, looked after, or watched: an unattended fire.” “Attended” is defined as “To take care; give attention: We'll attend to that problem later.” A cache is clearly not abandoned or unattended.

Another rule of statutory construction is you cannot interpret a regulation or statute to have absurd results. Under the Superintendent’s reading leaving your car while you go on a two-day backpack or float trip would violate this regulation. That is an absurd result.

Even if it was illegal, do not they have something better to do? If they are concerned about litter, why don’t they grab a bag and go pick some up? The National Parks are in bad shape. They are not well maintained. Don’t they have something better to do?

Glenn, I am not sure if we should ask the state about it. As far as I know only the Rockwoods cache has been a problem and that was an issue specific to Rockwoods. No one has suggested there is any problems with caching on state lands have they? Maybe we should develop a contingency plan in case we have any problems in the area on public lands. I would be willing to help out. Heck with as many caches as I have, it may be one of mine that they go after. I thing the approach should be we do not have problems with rules or regulations that protect resources or public safety. But we have a constitutional right to express ourselves on public lands. One thing people can do to make a better constitution case is to express yourself in the logs. For example, criticize what the government is doing or let your thoughts be known. Most of you know I am very critical of the government in some of my caches.

Barramus, I am not an attorney, so I cannot be a “legal representative.” But I do legal work for a living and have sued the Federal government 6 times without an attorney and I won all 6 cases.

 December 14, 2001 by *gln

(visit link)

 December 11, 2001 by *gln

-----Original Message-----
From: B. Hunt
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:07 AM
To: gpsstash@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gpsstash] National & State Parks OFF LIMITS!

Most of us realize that it is against the law
to stash a cache in ANY national park.

Here in New York State, it is also agains
the law to stash a cache in ANY state park.
Prohibited to leave any personal property....

It might be advised to check the New Jersey
laws as they affect Hi Point and Stokes Forest.

The topic was explicitly discussed as it pertains
to geocaching at our local Department of
Environment Control and they issued a department
policy reenforcing the general state law.

Note, that Rocky River Cache (a beautiful hike
and experience, by the way) is, under this
provision, an illegal stash. In fact, the trail head
is specifically posted as off-limits ANY trespassing
from December 1 to March 31. Purpose here is to
protect the winter habitat of the bald eagle. The state
purchased the river valley specifically for this purpose.

I appreciate that this subject is extremely disappointing
news for all geocaching and would be delighted to be
corrected. Anyway, all responsible participants would do
well to check on their local laws and regulations.

Please tell me I'm wrong!
....patrick

The gpsstash page (visit link)
The GPS Stash Hunt page. (visit link)

This in particular is the reason I'm glad that geocaching hasn't become
anything like a national phenomenon. There are enough stashes in my area
(Maryland) and as long as the number of participants is limited, it appears
we're 'flying under the radar'. If millions of people were doing this, I'm
sure there would be a lot of trampled over wilderness. As a Boy Scout of
many years I know how to be kind to nature, so I'm glad the unmwashed
multitudes are planted in front of the TV instead of caching. :)

Unless and until the (either state or federal) park service removes all
caches on park lands, I'm hoping it's a 'live and let live' kind of
activity. I don't plan on disturbing anything I wouldn't ordinarily disturb
and I'm assuming other cachers are doing the same.

If someone is going to maintain that it's a 'criminal' activity, I'm going
to take the position that I'm already a criminal. I speed. I don't always
come to a complete stop at stop-signs. I jaywalk. I'll drive after
consuming one or two glasses of wine with dinner. I've taped programs on
Television and shown or even given them to my friends without express
written permission. And... I geocache in national parks. The government has
criminalized much of what I do almost every day.

This isn't to say that I think people should encroach on a bald eagle's
protected habitat, but a geocache 20 feet off a marked trail? I don't
believe I'm doing any harm, just like me driving 45 in a 40 isn't doing any
harm.

That's just my opinion. Of course, I could be wrong.

Alex Johns

 November 29, 2001 by konopapw

What do you bet this is related to the Sunday news story on channel 2? Why, after the cache being planted for 3 months, would this be confiscated now?

I was initially offended by the Rockwood cache removal. But now, I appreciate the civilized manner in which the issue is being addressed by this guy. I've heard of worse stories.

As far as placement goes, this was NOT a dangerous cache. Heck, on a low rated cache I can still sprain my ankle or get bitten by a rattlesnake. I also didn't get the impression that going off the trail in Rockwood was a safety hazard. There may have been signs that said that, but if we didn't see them, they weren't doing any good.