August A. Busch Memorial C.A.
Weldon Springs C.A.
Howell Island C.A.
July 9, 2002 - SLAGA member 'wow4mom' speaks with a C.A. representative:
"I spoke with John Vogel out at Busch yesterday. He said that the conclusion they came to was that each area would make its own decision. He is
responsible for Busch, Weldon Springs and Howell Island. He sees no problem with caching. He is going to make up a form that shows the hunting areas. He
will only be restricting access a total of eight days a year in these areas. He will require anyone placing a cache to fill out a Special use form. It's
basic only name address phone number. You can pick them up at the office area after August 1st. They will be used for contact only if there is a problem.
He will personally be the one to sign them so there shouldn't be a problem. He suggesting that we put a copy of the form in our caches so that if they
are found by maintenance workers they will not be removed. Only the portion of the form that does not contain our personal information. He asked me to
pass on to anyone that has already placed one there that they will not take them out but to stop by after the forms are available so that they are not
removed in the future. He was thinking about asking for coordinates on the form since the special use
permits are not going to be numbered it would make sure to match a cache with a permit. He is not looking to tell anyone where they can and cannot place
them other than the restricted access during those eight hunt days."
July 10, 2002 - SLAGA member 'konopapw' reports 'wow4mon'
results to SLAGA newsgroup:
"You may or may not know this, but one of our new SLAGA members, wow4mom, has taken on the task of discussing the placement of geocaching on public
land. In this case, she spoke with John Vogel, who manages the Busch, Weldon Springs and Howell Island Conservation
Areas. She wanted to place a new cache in Weldon
Springs and took it upon herself to make contact and open up a dialog.
The good news is John does not have a problem with geocaching on the land he is responsible for. Even though he and others are aware of existing caches on his
land, those caches will not be pulled. But he suggests they be 'registered', as I'm about to describe.
John want us to follow a formal process from now on, which means filling out a form with coordinates of the cache and the cache placer's contact information,
so they can keep that information on file. He is not going to limit our creativity on where we place the caches. By putting a copy of the form inside
the cache, it will help maintenance workers identify what the cache is if accidently discovered. His biggest concern is the 8 days of controlled hunting
that occurs in the Conservation Area, so we need to be sensitive to that and mention those days on the cache pages.
The form will be available at their office sometime soon. We'll let you know when we hear from them.
In regards to the other Conservation Areas in our vicinity, other 'Urban Foresters' handle those and the verdict from a series of meetings going on at
the same time wow4mom was talking to John, is that each Forester will made their own decisons about caches placed in their jurisdiction.
This is a positive step forward in cooperation. Let's make this one work, so that the other Foresters will want to follow our example."
August 8, 2002 - konopapw
& Ms E. attempt to contact Wally Brumfield:
"We stopped by Rockwood Reservation's office today and asked if we could speak to
Wally Brumfield. The woman at the desk asked if we had an appointment and we said,
'No'. She went to the back room and came back quickly to say that he was in a
meeting. I wrote a message to Wally stating that I wanted to discuss geocaching on land
he was responsible for. I left my email address." (Update: As of 8/25/02,
there has been no reply.)
August 12, 2002 - Dan Eubanks meets with
John Vogel at Busch Wildlife:
"I visited with John Vogel at Busch Wildlife today. I asked him about the recent article in The Post and what the planned regulations for Geocaching
on Conservation land looks like. John told me that the current plan state-wide will be to allow cache hunting on most state owned property.
Exceptions would be to land that does not allow anyone to leave established trails and during organized hunts. John is asking that all owners of cache
boxes on Busch, Weldon Spring or Howell come into the conservation office and fill out a special use permit AFTER September 1st. The forms are not yet
printed. Then place a copy of that form in your cache for any agent that finds the cache to verify that you have asked permission to place the cache.
Apparently a bow hunter found the old Gilligan's Island Cache. Due to the theme of Gilligan pleading to be rescued from the island the hunter
mistakenly thought that someone really was in trouble. He proceded to notify the sherriff's office that someone was in trouble on Howell Island. This and
the story that Fox 2 did on "Pray For The USA" and Geocaching in general prompted the Missouri Department of Conservation to look into the sport and
was surprised to find more than a dozen caches on Howell, Weldon Spring and Busch land.
Everyone needs to contact John and let him know that we appreciate the department allowing Geocaching on conservation land.
John's e-mail is [email protected]
If you have a cache on conservation land call John after 9-01-02 at 636-441-4554 ext.318 and make an appointment to register your cache."
August 15, 2002 - wow4mom
John Vogel of Busch Wildlife:
"I brought up the idea about doing an online form and he said he would
possibly be open to that after he gets things going. He said he could fax or mail the forms out if that was easier for some people. The hold up on the
forms is that they are making them available to all the areas in St.Louis.They want a consistent form, but he said areas such as Rockwoods
have areas that they don't want people off trail. So the form will differ from one location to another. He also asked my opinion on a time limit. He
suggested six months, however I told him that many are visited well after a year so he said he will make them in six month intervals that can be renewed
for additional spans of six months. A fax is all that will be necessary for renewal. He said eventually he wouldn't mind a statewide form so that all
areas would participate. I think part of the problem is that some areas don't have a form so its easier to say no than write
policy ... I asked if he had gotten any negative feedback from the other areas he said at this point zero. He's already sent the form to the
other areas so that they have a chance to look at it ... Michelle"
September 3, 2002 - John
Vogel contacts Eubie3 regarding Special Use Permits:
John Vogel at Busch Wildlife called today to let me know that the Geocaching Special Use Permits for Weldon Spring, Howell Island and Busch Wildlife are
ready for pick up. If you have placed a cache on these properties please go by the office on Hwy D and fill out the new form.